Sawinski (and others reading this thread)

Before you buy into this, you need to stop and think to yourself...why would a man who presents his handle as RobertMD, implying he is a doctor, come to a board that supports men and women dealing with trust issues and infidelity, has a wife that is basically running amuk, having sex with anyone she likes, any time she likes to present a theory that somehow we are not responsible for our actions that cause significant and widespread pain because we are wired to cheat. Really.

There is definite validity to what RobertMD says in regard to human beings needing to reproduce for the sake of humanity. No argument there. But to somehow try and validate a persons choice to cheat, lie, and deceive (which go hand in hand with cheating - that would be as in the mechanics of cheating) by saying it's wired into us, we have no choice, we are not responsbile for our choices (to hurt, lie and deceive as in cheating) is simply irresponsible. Yes, we do have an unconscious mind that operates silently in the background, but we, as moral human beings, have the ability to listen to our conscious mind which helps us determine what is right and what is wrong. Our conscious mind is what says - hey, this is wrong, I am NOT going to do what is wrong. OR our conscious mind can also say - hey, this is wrong and I AM going to do it anyway. We get to choose the path we take, consciously.

If we were to believe as RobertMD says and leave it at that, we would all be pregnant from the time of menstruation until menopause, year after year because from the beginning of mankind we would we have continued to replicate and never evolve into human beings that CAN decipher right from wrong.

Mr. RobertMD, just because your wife has been cheating on you without regard to her conscious mind and chooses to live unconsciously, does not mean that most people are not aware of what is right and what is wrong. They consciously choose to make decisions to either hurt the person they have made a commitment to or consciously choose to honor the commitment they made.

While your spin may be valid and accurate, my impression is it is presented for unconsciously self-centered reasons.

By the way, God, I believe, has tried to stop people from having sex with anyone, anytime they please...ever hear of STD's?

I agree with both Sawinski and Marie, this man is obviouly in denial. I guess I am a malfunction of some kind because I have never had the URGE to cheat. God did NOT design our bodies the way Robert decribes. God did make our bodies miraculously wonderful, but nothing like what Robert decribes.

I am not even going to get started on him allowing his wife to cheat, because that is not a normal reaction. If someone does not have a normal reaction to something gone hay wire with his wife, do you honestly think his 'writings' are normal?

Sounds like someone has more time on their hands than most people, to come up with a valid excuse to cheat....well for women to have a valid excuse to cheat. LOL This world is full enough of harlets and whores without giving them an "ok, its not your fault'.

First, nowhere did I say I was an MD. Nor did I suggest in any way shape or form that I was. That was your own personal interpretation, based on lack of facts. I am an EE and ME. MD happen to be my last two initials. Your attack on this is what happens when people assume, instead of knowing the facts.

I don't have a lot of time on my hands. I engineer and prototype the equipment used in various studies in labs around the world. I also type at over 65 wpm. I have over twenty years experience in the field, which incidentally makes me far more qualified on the subject than those who have emotionally and ignorantly attacked me and my post. I work an average of 14 hours a day, seven days a week. My last post was written while experiencing fatigue. My apologies if it was unclear or uncoordinated, as apparently it was.

Nowhere did I say that cheating is 'acceptable' due to our programmed urges to mate. I simply wanted to explain to people that the urge to mate is as natural and programmed into us as breathing and eating are. In fact, I stated quite clearly that cheating due to programmed effects is NOT acceptable either privately or socially. My explanation was intended to help people understand WHY they cheat. If anyone has 'real' data to suggest otherwise, please speak up. If not, then say you don't understand instead of challenging a subject of which you truly are not qualified to argue. I speak in less than scientific terms, because experience has shown me that people generally have no idea what I am talking about due to their lack of a basis for comparison. So, I use more simple terms and examples in an attempt to describe something of some complexity. For me, this is not an easy task.

My wife does not run wild. What you failed to ponder is my definition of cheating. I define cheating as an individual openly advertising themselves for a sexual encounter, with anyone other than their mate. As explained previously, I am aware of such acts as they occur due to the senses previously mentioned. I also indicated that I 'intervened' before any sexual acts occurred. Just because she did not 'have' sex with another partner, does not mean, in my definition of the word... that she isn't cheating. Another thing that needs to be noted is the word 'average'. Take the years of observation and divide them by the total occurrences. This produces an average. She did not cheat on me every six months. It is an 'average'.

Attacking me because I have a greater sense of compassion and understanding for my wife is not an acceptable practice, especially from moderators. I did not attack you or anyone else. I simply attempted to describe an event and its cause, with the intention of helping people understand something they may or may not be presently aware of. If anyone has been led to believe otherwise, I extend my apologies to you.

Once again, it is assumed that a 'man' (me) doesn't understand working hard with little recognition. I am a stay at home dad. My prototype lab, where most of my work is done is attached to my home. My wife works outside of the home. So yes, I do understand completely the effects of having my work with the children and around the house, ignored. That is life. Just because I do what is required of me, does not automatically qualify me for special treatment of any kind. My wife has no complaints about me or my work around the house. That in itself is a compliment.

Lastly, it was inappropriate of me to break the common rule of not discussing religion or politics in a post. Again, I was quite fatigued when I wrote it. Excuse or not, it is unacceptable. Again, my apologies are extended. The offensive post was deleted.

How can you say you didnt attack anyone, this whole post is full of it. Calling people ignorant for having an oppinion of there own sounds like an attack to me now doesnt it.

I am allowed to have my opinion just as you are. And who says that you are more qualified then anyone else here? Do you know me? Do you know anyone else here? Do you know anything about anyone on this board? No you dont so to assume ignorantly that you are the smartest man here is just as dumb.

So I guess you believe that being book smart is better then being street smart, right? I guess thats a matter of personal oppinion too now isnt it. Hey guess what I can type just as fast as you but I work at McDonalds, does that make you feel good. Would it make a difference if I told you I didnt work at McDonalds? My point is that you made assumptions about me, and others here without knowing any facts, so how is that any different that the assumption about you being an MD?

Over and over again you made excuses as to why it was ok to cheat. Reread your post, read it from an outsiders point of view because us here we are all slow and we need you to write it in retard terms for us. I would say that your post is full of degrading remarks. Everything that you wrote was based off of pure assuptions without any merit or facts. I on the other hand went off what you wrote, and how I read it and understood it.

No One was challanging your theory we were simply stating that what you have to say is your opinion and we have ours. Period! You can have yours I can have mine and we will agree to disagree.

You said your wife has cheated on you an "average" of every 6 months for the past 15 years. If I take that average and x that by 15 years I get 30 male partners. Correct? Ok then, even if she didnt have sex with these men she still wanted to, thats WRONG! Put it however you want to make yourself sleep at night I dont care. I went to Junior high I can figure out what an average is, thanks for the refresher. If you want to call it a great sense of compassion and understanding thats fine but I would call it turning your back and making excuses for her. Call it what you want.

I never said that women need special treatment, go back and read it over again. What I said was that women tend (tend being the oprative word)to give more than they recieve (proven fact) I know for me I work full time, go home take care of a home and family and get little appreciate for what I do. I am not asking for much but a little thank you every now and then is nice. If you dont require that then fine, thats you. You are not a female! Men and women are built totally different, we need different things so you a man wouldnt understand. So I say that you dont know your facts on this one since you dont have a vigina!

By the way I am still a person, I have feelings, opinions and I have an education. So who is the one that really has made all the ignorant assumptions here?

I say agree to disagree.

Robert, It is incidental that your last two initials happen to MD. Did it not occur to you with your extensive knowledge and eloquent presentation that any average human being reading a post on a public forum would interpret the MD to indicate some medical background? If my initials just happen to be APRN would it be appropriate for me use the handle MarieAPRN? Would that not imply to the general public that I had a medical background? I would have expected that a person of your professional background and aptitude would have realized something so obvious. If it was not intentional perhaps it would be wise to consider that emotional and ignorant people will assume what is left for assumption.

How many words per minute you type has no relevance to the content of your post. I can type 80 wpm and play Rachmaninoff without missing a note, does that qualify my knowledge about the matters pertaining to this forum?

We don't argue here Robert. This forum is for men and women who have been emotionally and mentally abused by their partner/spouse. You may not have said the exact words - cheating is acceptable - however, a person who is recovering from the fall out of this type of betrayal has heard excuses on top of excuses from the cheating mate, many times projecting the blame on to the betrayed. Whether that blame is self-imposed or real, the feelings and pain they are experiencing is consuming and degrading. For a person in this state of emotional upheaval to hear what sounds like another excuse for the cheater only further degrades their already fragile sense of self-worth. Presenting data to support or negate why people are programmed to cheat does nothing to help the victim who is emotionally and mentally weak, and trying to pick up the pieces to their broken relationship. Perhaps your viewpoint would be put to better use on a cheaters support board, because that's where the answer to the question why would probably be put to better use and you would find an audience that is more open to hearing possible reasons why they cheated. Simply because there is a genetically programmed reason for people to feel sexual, does not entirely explain why people act on those impulses. I am programmed to eat and feed my family. If I don't have the wherewithal to feed my family, does that mean I can use this same programming theory to help people understand WHY I would steal food or kill. Would it matter if people understood that I was programmed to feed my offspring? I hardly think it would be helpful to the victims to simply understand WHY I did what I did - for my sense of survival. It is the same in this case.

It is unfortunate that you receive a response from someone that does not agree with your presentation as an attack. That is sad. It is a reflection on your ability to convey what you really meant to say Robert, because the tone in which you delivered it sounded very cold and uncompassionate. This is not an attack, it is an observation. If you choose to receive that as an attack, that is your choice to do so.

As moderators we are not here to do anything more than interrupt spam and protect anonymity, as well as use our good judgment when the board is being misused. I approved your message to be posted Robert, without prejudice. A moderators sense of compassion and understanding or lack thereof has nothing at all to do with being a moderator. Who's making a personal interpretation? Hmm.

For whatever it is worth to you Robert, and I stress - this is not an attack - is it at all possible that your social interaction with the general public is not as finely tuned as your intellect? That is being said with compassion to a man (you) who has offered as information about who they are and what they do - that being, a stay at home dad who works 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, is fatigued, works hard and gets little recognition, recognizes the effect their work and home responsibilities has on them and is ignored. That paints a picture of a person who is tired, perhaps even exhausted, mentally, physically and emotionally. Is it at all possible that more social interaction with the general public as you put it would help you expand on your ability to really understand what compassion is? M