How do I distinguish between a compulsive liar who lies out of fear and a seemingly pathological liar who maliciously leeches off society?

Here's the shortest possible summary of my situation: I'm a 26 year old male with average looks and a low income, but two years ago when I was living in China, my income was the highest around. I met a girl who I fell much more deeply in love with than I could ever have imagined.

I considered possible reasons for my infatuation that included, her different ethnicity although no one calls her pretty; Stockholm syndrome (i.e., it was a fearful environment in that everyone was lying to me, there was a military camp outside my window, and at first I couldn't understand the language and culture); her emotional power that seems supernatural, if she is upset or happy the whole room thrums with her feelings, they go into me and make me feel fully alive; I don't know how she does it, but when I am with her I feel better than any other time of my life. She's a lot like using drugs.

It's possible that I'm in love with her lying. I left graduate school in Math and Science out of boredom; specifically I didn't like the idea that Science can explain everything so I moved to China and found the most confounding person of my life. Lies include saying she was six years younger than reality, big events from her past, her sister's occupations, and everyday things. I questioned my sanity and reality. She is a liar, there's no question about that. There is also no question about the fact that she doesn't care about the suffering her lies cause me. She thinks it's my problem. She qualifies her acknowledgments of past lies with "I want to help you ...", but she has no intention of straightening out reality for me. What she says then is also not based in truth.

She is an expert at control and manipulation, smarter than me. There's the doubtful story of her ex-boyfriend who killed a man but escaped the police by using money. She repeatedly threatens suicide. She can cry and wreath her body in the creepiest and most terrifying ways imaginable (at times I get the feeling that her displays are deliberate). If I talk of breaking up she threatens my life both directly and indirectly by engineering a situation where after all things are considered staying is my best option.

I have a difficult time reconciling her manipulative treatment with her love for me, but at the same time I feel it's truer, deeper and stronger than anyone else could love me. If she understands where I'm coming from, she will do anything for me. The empathy is at times unbelievable. At times, we truly live for each other. But, she doesn't seem to take my complaints about lying seriously. I get the sense that she views me as a little crazy, with a tendency towards interrogation and a fanatical obsession with the truth, and also the sense that she enjoys the power that her self-granted lying privilege gives her. Anyway, if I could spend the rest of my life on an island with just one person, it would be her.

Only problem is this: I don't want to be axed by a violent sociopath. She doesn't really fit the criteria, but her lying, manipulation, threats, and emotional power frighten me. I am working on coming to terms with her fantasy world of lies, after all its kind of fun. But there's nothing at all fun in the fear that our relationship has produced. Judge a tree by its fruit, unless that tree is not consistent; producing the most rotten fruit one second, followed by the sweetest of all the next.

No matter how I look at this situation, I can't find a consistent viewpoint. Please shed some light if you can.

Putting his faith back in Science,

Response:

To begin with, it seems like you are fairly aware of what’s going on. From our point of view, it sounds like your attraction to each other is based on some form of emotional game playing.

Does she like to play games with your emotions by doing the things you fear the most: being manipulative, cunning, and being cavalier with the truth? And do you enjoy catching her in these types of games and forcing the truth out of her? This type of game playing can be very seductive for some people (see, ludus).

Such emotional game playing can be tremendously stimulating and it creates a very deep connection on some level. And you are exactly right – for some people this type of excitement is like a drug – it can become addictive - blind to reason.

In some relationships, people feel so close to each other because they are so good at pushing each other’s buttons – it creates a genuine sense of understanding and closeness. If this pattern of behavior describes your relationship, then what you see now is what you're going to get. Your future with her will be no different from your past.

In fact, your game playing may escalate over time as the two of you need more stimulation to fuel your sense of connection. But, on the bright side, if she hasn’t been violent in the past, you probably won’t have to worry about her resorting to violence in the future. Women, even women with sociopathic tendencies, tend to be a lot less violent than men (for more on “sociopaths” - which is not technically a clinical distinction, please visit LoveFraud).

So, is she a pathological liar or a compulsive liar? Making such distinctions is difficult to do (see, types of liars).

In either case, the problem is not really about her, but it stems from your connection to each other. So, it may help you to focus on the dynamics of your relationship rather than focusing on what she contributes to it. In fact, focusing on a partner's behavior often helps people avoid facing the truth. And generally speaking, the more you can focus on what you bring to the situation, the less likely you'll be a victim of what happens.

Comments (19)

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This is so true.....
written by K , 30 January, 2007

I'm in a very similar situation. I didn't take the lying so seriously because I thought she was just being slick. Until very recently that I have noticed that I'm not the only one she lies to. She lies to friends, family, employers, etc. This was very helpful. It's good to know that I'm not the only one in love with compulsive liar.

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lying
written by Robbie , 20 March, 2007

Every time my wife is lying and I am suspicious.... and asking questions... she starts screaming and cursing. I don't even bother asking questions. Even worse I stopped living with her and don't call her anymore. She has a behavior which is making me feel terrible and even doubt whether I am right or totally wrong. I have to listen to things... you are manipulating, etc. etc. Since last week after just too many insults I left and didn't contact her anymore. It hurts, ...very much, but I can't take anymore. Done with guys calling her early mornings, late evenings, offering her presents between 20 and almost 60.000 euro, done with the lying where she hangs out (with guys), the reaction I get is... 'you are a control freak and sherlock holmes. This all sounds very weird and vague, But that is exactly how I feel.
Kind regards,
Rob

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pathological liars
written by lorenzo , 23 March, 2007

I live with my two children's mother for eight years. During our eight years living together, she lied about almost everything. I always knew she was lying to me, therefore I would always challenge her dishonesty. when I caught her lying, she would cover a lie with another lie. In the beginning I thought maybe it was because our relationship was fairly new; and maybe she was affraid of me knowing her. But, after eight years of her lies, I realizes she a "liar." Then I had to ask myself could I live that way with her. My answer was no. So I moved on. Today I realizes that that was the best decision I ever made. If you feel that's all your worth, that's all you'll get. Today life could not be any better.

I encourage anyone who's experiencing this type of behavior from the person their involved with, to get out now; it don't get any better in the long run.

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written by Original Author , 05 May, 2007

Hi all! Still not fully in the clear here, but feeling a little less pressure, and relief at being away from Love.

I'll give anyone who wants to read a short update.

"Not so Pathological After All"


Although the original diagnosis wasn't exactly right on, I took the general theme of the advice to heart, and stopped focusing on my girlfriends behavior, and re-examined my own. I found that I had been behaving quite mad. I remembered that after seeing a man kiss her on the cheek, I trashed my room in an awkward attempt to express my anger, and then showed her pictures of people with STD's in an attempt to educate her on the effects of sleeping around without a condom. I would also bury gifts for her. Yes, bury gifts underground. At the time I was thinking around these lines: "I'm not sure if we will get married, but if we do, she must receive these gifts, and furthermore she must know that I was always sure." All my thoughts were bent towards establishing the greatness of my and her relationship. At the time I had to choose between a career and her, and I actually enjoyed turning down job offers for her, as if they were badges of honor to testify to the strength of the relationship. When I decided to propose to her, it was a big production, but I refused to tell any of my friends, or family, any of the details, as if it would take away from the magic of it all. In fact, I didn't give her any hints at all either. Looking back it was so stupid, and neglectful of her feelings. In the end I didn't even propose. Why? Because in the meantime a whole slew of lies came out. She had lied to me about her entire past. Why? Because she couldn't fit my ideals? Maybe.
But then why did she lie right from the beginning?
And why did she threaten suicide?
And why did she threaten to kill me if I left with another woman?
And why did I eventually leave her with a fear for my life?
Why have I been researching sociopaths?
Why have I been researching serial killer psychology?
Was I drugged into love?
Is she going to poison me?

Ok. This is getting too long. And I'm not so cheerful as I was when I started writing.

Right now I'm in China, far away from her, and getting ready to come back to the states. I'm really tired.

Oh. One more thing. There's another girl here who I feel almost the same type of attraction for, and she's married and totally dishonest. Things will definitely not proceed at all, but the spark of attraction is there, and this nugget of information might reveal something about my own personality. Maybe the honest ones are just to bland for my taste.

Thanks to the above posters.

Any further responses will be read and appreciated.

Yikes. Finally, in case the experts are still reading. I dont' think she enjoys playing games with the truth, I'm fairly certain of this. And I'm fully certain that I don't like forcing the truth out of her, and I have fully stopped doing that. It seems like her and I are both searching for an acceptable way to proceed - an acceptable philosophy from which to view what has happened and what will happen.

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written by Cristina , 19 September, 2007

I am currently involved with a liar. To everyone else he is the greatest guy. Always helping others whenever he can, etc. I've been dating him on and off for two years. Each time we stop seeing each other it is because I caught him in a lie and confronted him. His reaction is always the same. I am the crazy one and he doesn't need this in his life. I've recently caught him in a lie and decided not to confront him. When we last got back together again he said he didn't want to be with anyone else and he would not date anyone else. Those were his words. Yet, he takes women out to dinners and ballgames. I don't understand him - I ask him if our "deal" is still in effect and he constantly reassures me that it is - and that he wants to be with me and only me. Then there's lies about his mother (she is in a nursing home but he tells me she lives with him in his apt and she has a caregiver). Actually, he stays at my apt every night. So I did some investigating and found out he no longer has that apartment. The complicated part of this all is that I work for him. He actually "saved" me from my previous employment where I was truly miserable. Funny thing is that for the past two months, I thought he was helping me because he truly loved me. But now I'm not sure of that. I really don't know why he is doing it. I just don't know what to do. I love the guy but does he really love me or is that a lie too?

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written by KM , 27 September, 2007

Dear Christina, You have my sympathy, as I was, up until two weeks ago, dating someone who lies about as often as he tells the truth. The last set of lies involved another woman - one half his age. Now I wonder, as you do, was it a lie when he was telling me he loved me? And I can't even see the point in trying to talk to him about it, as he'd be SO defensive and just tell MORE lies. It complicates things for you that you have to work with/for this man, but you can always be looking for other employment if you decide you're better off without him than with him. Good luck!

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written by A.D. , 03 October, 2007

I'm close to this situation,
I thought I really really liked this guy. He seemed to know me better than I knew myself, he would always know what I was thinking and when I was thinking it. Everything made sense as to why we would be perfect for each other. He had a hard childhood and was abused, so he had a lot of mental scars, down to the point where I was keeping him from suicide... Well, turns out he had lied to me about everything... everything down to his gender. Before you say something like "wow, she must have been stupid to not notice" it wasn't just me, most of my friends thought the same. I stopped talking to him because he.. she.. seems a little crazy.. well, a lot crazy.. I asked one of her friends later, and apparently they said something about her being a pathological or compulsive liar, I cant remember which. I know that thats probably not the only thing wrong with her, but it would sure explain a lot of the things I was told. I honestly, can't figure out how I was so blind.

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written by D.L. , 31 October, 2007

Well, don't feel too bad because up until two weeks ago I was dating a guy who was a compulsive liar. When I tried to talk to him about why he lies, he would never want to talk about it. This would always seem very frustrating to me and I would send him an email breaking up with him. I broke up with him several times by email, each time he came back but he always loved to turn it all on me that it's my fault.

Well, I'm glad that I broke up with him because all the lies and deception was creating a lot of stress for me. It was someone that I work with, but I think in time I will just concentrate on the relief I feel from having this compulsive liar out of my life. I figure that if someone can't even tell the truth, they are not worth having in your life.

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written by B. , 25 February, 2008

I am currently dating this guy who lies compulsively. Everyone thinks he is a great guy but after a while i bet people start to see through him. He contradicts himself constantly. He pretends and hides the truth and it really hurts me. I have been with this guy for nearly a year and I am seeing that he really does not care about anyone but himself.

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written by TT , 10 March, 2008

Hi There,

I have also had the same sort of problem with my partner. Believing that something was wrong with me in that I was suspicious all the time has led me to realize that he's a compulsive liar. He lies to his parents about minor things 'to make it easier' to deal with. I've asked him before 'so what's to stop you from lying to me?' which he always seems to answer with reassurance that he loves me very much. I recently check the history on my laptop (which he uses regularly now) and there were some not so nice topless photos on there of a woman he knows (who knows we're together and also has a boyfriend). When I brought the situation up in a round about way he claimed that she hadn't sent him anything... just goes to show that he feels he doing me a favor by not telling me even though I know the truth (which is bizarre as I'm pretty sure he knows that I know). As far as I know, he hasn't acted on this situation, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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written by hopeless , 13 March, 2008

I have dated a compulsive liar for 4 years. I did not find out he was a liar until a year ago. Even when things he said did not make sense, he would make like I was making too much of a deal about it. Then I would start questioning myself, and what I believe what was going on. Last year after leaving him he told me he loved me and wanted to marry me. He told me some of the things he was lying to me about. He lied about his whole life. He told me he did not have any kids and never been married, but he had been married and he has one daughter not to much younger than me. I thought we were close to the same age. He is 14 years older than me. There were even more lies on top of that. I was devastated. Here I thought I knew this man, but I knew nothing about him. There were several signs and everyone said he was lying to me. He is so manipulative. When he talks, he makes me feel like he is telling the truth and I am the one with the problem. I love him so much. I have decided I can't take it anymore. I have realize it is an illness and he needs psychological help that I can not give him. If he does not get help, I know the relationship can not last. My heart is torn because I have grown to love him so much. I am trying to be strong and keep him away from me, because I don't want to go back in relationship where there is no trust. He admits he has a problem and that his lies get in the way of his relationship, but he is so self absorbed. He refuse to get help. Because of him and others I have had to seek my own counseling.

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written by ac , 24 July, 2008

I'm married to a pathological liar,I found out she lied about being raped when she was younger. When I confronted her about it she spit in my face. This was the worst response I got from her, usually she runs away and cry when confronted about a lie. We only been married less than a year, but her lying makes me wont to leave this marriage. I need to know stay or go.

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written by jab123 , 07 November, 2008

I am currently trying to break up with a liar. I don't know if he knows he's doing it or if it's intentional but I cannot live with all the questions.
I'm noticing a pattern in the responses that the liars make us doubt ourselves and our instincts.
I love this man very much. He treats me well and is a caring partner. He'd be perfect if it wasn't for the lying.
And I am trying to break up with him but am afraid he will keep drawing me in.
His lies confound me. He lies about big things (such as being born in Italy and having a rich mother) to small insignificant things (talking to the neighbor downstairs).
I want him to stop so we can stay together but I know it will keep happening.
When I met him he said he was a marine and lived two hours away. Never been married and dying to have a family.
I got a call four months ago from a woman claiming to be his wife who also said they had 4 children.
He told me they were separated and getting a divorce but that she was into drugs so it was slowing things down. He said he has 1 daughter by her and cannot have custody until the courts finish things up but he cannot give me any answers to why it's taking so long.
He was staying with me and driving down 3 times a week to see her.
He doesn't have a job and when I asked him where the money was coming for from gas he said his ex's mother was helping him.
Yesterday I recovered a resume on my laptop that he had created. There was a contact number I didn't know. He doesn't have a phone and had asked to use mine for the contact number. I looked it up and it belongs to a 26 year old woman about 40 min from me.
I asked him about the number and he said it belonged to his ex's mother. That was LIE #1. Next I asked where the phone was located. He gave a different location. LIE #2. Finally I asked if his ex's mother would answer if i called. He said yes. LIE #3. I then told him I knew who the phone belonged to and he said he hasn't seen her in ages. So why is he using her as his contact number on a resume then?
All this happened today. I told him it was the last time he would lie to me and that we were done.
He continues to email me begging I reconsider.
I don't think I can live the rest of my life wondering if he's telling the truth or lying. He was everything I wanted in a partner....but maybe all that was a lie too.
I wish he could stop.

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written by ex crazy girl , 30 December, 2008

It is sad i am that girl, my boyfriend is that guy. However I am not a liar in general. Our situation started with something i did that i was ashamed of and was afraid to tell him about and when the truth came out, i continued to lie to save the relationship from ruins and to protect his feelings and not make me seem so bad. So at that point i compulsively did lie. I out of fear of losing him attempted suicide, i would ruin his things and i even went as far as to hit him. i went crazy, but it was cuz i wanted to scare him to stay. i had to go through counseling and therapy and do a lot of self healing to get to where i am now. it is sad to hear this story cuz it is so what we had. it is funny cuz he was from china and i am the 26 year old he was 23. he came down to the states to visit and met me and decided to stay for me. It took me to lose him completely to scare my ass straight and make the change. Now he and i get along very much and it is nice not to have all the baggage on my back. we can speak openly with each other. he had his own insecurity issues that is why he stood to begin with. so i believe it has to do with both partners and their own personal issues. i do agree with the game play. i also agree that it is such a deep connection with that person to make you act in that particular way.

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written by jpm69 , 01 February, 2009

I'm a 19 year old girl and my male best friend since childhood is a compulsive liar. He stops at nothing; he doesn't tell the truth about what time he goes to work (like I even gave a crap about that) to making up a story saying he got mugged one time. Then, when I call him out on it, he pretends to "forget" the conversations. I'm talking, entire incidents here.

The weird thing is that I've known him since we were seven or eight and he hasn't always been this way. In fact, up until about a year and a half ago, he was seemingly the kindest, most honest kid you've ever met.

To everybody else--his mom, his girlfriend (both controlling women by the way), he is still that person, and to me he just MAKES STUFF UP.

Today, I called him out on it and his response was more lies and a promise never to do it again.

I don't care; This has been going for WAY too long, and I'm finished.

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written by No love , 28 July, 2009

Im in a similar situation Im involved with a pathological liar This man totally in his mind think the things he tell me the truth I don't believe anything the man say he claim he's divorce but I now think thats a lie he said that he was getting rid of his place so that we can be together ok but he claim the house is rented but yet he claim to be living on his mother couch (lie) its just becoming unbearable Im at the place in my life where happiness and togetherness is the most important thing to me but we don't have that and he seem to think that we are still together and I feel no togetherness at all I totally don't feel like I can depend on this man because he is not there. I cant talk to him because he seem to be living in this make believe world where he love me an everything is alright.

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written by Graeme Robertson , 04 January, 2010

I have been in a same sex relationship with a pathological liar for 12 years now. I was infatuated with him and his grandiose stories. It is like a drug and he knew when to use it on me. I knew all along but felt powerless to do anything about it as I loved him dearly.
Can I say that it wont get better. It will get worse. They lie about affairs so you lose all the trust. But you hang in there until they leave. When he did it was so painful but I was able to focus on how unhealthy our relationship had been. I was living with a liar a cheat and a betrayer. He told me that he had been into his Dads bank account and knew how much money they had. That was a lie. He told my 12 year old daughter that he and his girlfriend had a baby and it died and was buried in a white coffin......sick. That doesnt even scratch the surface yet I chose to stay with him? They are manipulative and threatening. He has always told me that he would love me until the day I died. I believed him!! What a fool I was.
So my advise would be to get out fast. You have to make that decision, no one else can. Its painful as you have been pre conditioned to the lies. They are a part of your life. Then you have to start a relationship with an honest person? Thats difficult too. Good luck.

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written by Deceived, Manipulated and Cheated on , 05 July, 2010

I have been in a same sex relationship with a woman for about 2 and a half years. She is 16 years younger than me. When I first met her I didn't know how old she was. when I did find out we had already started seeing each other. She looked and seemed much older. She was 19 I was 35. The lies and manipulation and cheating could become a novel and the way I felt about her and the difficulty leaving felt like a drug addiction. Being with a compulsive liar is the most exhausting thing. You never know when the truth is coming out of their mouth. Even down to their feelings for you, I have no idea whether she loved me or not. She said she did, several times a day, we had great chemistry, but the draw to lie and cheat was greater than any chemistry we could ever have. The thrill of the lie and deception and manipulation was too great. At first I chalked up the lying and shadiness to her age, but as time passed I realized, "hey I didn't act that way when I was 19" so I new that it was a problem with lying. It sucks that compulsive lying for her is a problem that most likely will never get resolved. I hope the best for her and anyone that crosses her path. As for me I just learned my lesson and hope for someone better to share my life with. . . .

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written by Two Cheaters , 14 July, 2010

I have been in a relationship with a man for three years who I just found out recently that he cheated on me a year ago...but not only until he found out the truth about me cheating on him. For the past six weeks I have lied to him and deceived him, I tried to commit suicide and failed...He was the one who saved me and I am forever grateful! We have both hurt each other...but he continuously talks about that night I messed up... I love him and I know that I regret everything that I did and I will never cheat on him again! but how can I prove that to him?

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